December 9, 2023 - 11:25am
New to L11 bread pans
I just got the aluminum L11 pans for baking some Russian breads. Do they need to be prepared before use? I washed them but I wonder if they need to be seasoned? I have never used anything like them and they came without instructions so I don't know.
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I used to have something written down, but can't find it now - I think it was from a leaflet that came with my L12a tin.
Basically, you wash the tin in hot soapy water, then rinse well and dry it in a low oven for about 15 mins.
Turn up the oven to something pretty high - 250c/500F.
Pour some oil into the tin, swish it round, ensuring all the inside is coated. Pour out the excess oil. Turn the tin upside down and place on a baking sheet with a lip. You need to prop up the edge of the tin with an old spoon or the like so the oil can run out.
Put the assembly in the oven for about 30mins. Be prepared for some nasty smoke and fumes.
Remove and cool. You should have a good solid coating all over the inside of the pan. Diehards will repeat this a few times, but I just did it once.
It does need redoing now and again.
I used rapeseed oil/canola.
Lance
It sounds like this could be an option for these. Thanks!
Hi!
No need to prepare them in any way. No seasoning is needed. Just like any other metallic pans simply grease them inside (I use low fat margarine because it has a lot of lecithine in it), or spray PAM, or apply Better than PAM before filling them with dough and proofing/baking.
Industrially, it is done that way - just apply a lecithine/oil based coating inside and it is ready to be filled with dough. At home, some folks do apply a thin layer of oil to a new pan and bake it for 20min at 200C, until it dries and turns yellow, but I have never done that with mine. And when I get old used pans from some factory, I strip all that old oil from them to make them look like new.
It is not pure aluminum though, it's a special alloy (aluminum, silicon and copper mostly, with minor amounts of Mn, Mg and Ti).
I own a variety of them sent to me by friends from Belarus and occasionally use them for wheat bread baking or soda breads, but I use these pans all the time for our daily rye breads. They are the best.
Now I remember making a lecithin+oil mix a long time ago following instructions in Laurel Robertson's book. I think it was to enhance the non stick properties. Sounds like the pans could be seasoned or not. Decisions, decisions... In any case there will be a coating on the inside after the first bake either way.
I've stripped cast iron before with lye. However this being aluminum alloy, lye wouldn't be a good idea as it corrodes it, right? How did you strip them?
I used PBW, its 1% solution has pH of 12 and it is non caustic, safe on aluminum. Works like oven cleaners, but better. These days Dawn dishwashing detergents such as Platinum 4x or Dawn Powerwash are also effective on baked on grease and can be found everywhere on store shelves.
I stripped my antique cast iron pans with heat, in my oven in self cleaning mode.
Manuel Friedman's Lecithin&Oil blend from LR's book is my favorite. It takes a very tiny amount to make the interior of baking pans and baking sheets completely non stick and I often don't even wash the pans after baking. Just wiping them with a dry rag is enough. Lecithine in 30-50%fat soft margarines helps stabilize water-oil emulsion.
Re: coating new pans. I do not see the point of coating them with cooking oil and baking them once. To make them non stick like seasoned cast iron pans, we would rather use the cast iron seasoning method with drying oil (flaxseed or tungseed oil) and several rounds of it, then wait for a week for the resulting polymer layers to harden before using pans in baking.
Anyways, I wish you many years of very happy baking in L11. I am sure you will love that pan and it will love you back.
Mariana said: "I stripped my antique cast iron pans with heat, in my oven in self cleaning mode."
Many moons ago, I thought this would be a good idea to clean decades of gunge from the sides of my cast iron frying pan (I've also done bbq racks). It was a heavy, well-made pan; however, the intense heat warped it. Just enough that it no longer sits flat on the burner and fat runs to the sides. I have never forgiven myself.
To make them non stick like seasoned cast iron pans, we would rather use the cast iron seasoning method with drying oil (flaxseed or tungseed oil)
It's not well known, but the same seasoning methods work for stainless steel skillets too. You might have to re-season them more often. Just make sure that each coat is very thin, as you should when seasoning cast iron and carbon steel too.
I thought about doing that but never followed through on the idea. Mainly because if I use a skillet nowadays it's either non-stick or carbon steel. In any case that sounds like Sheryl Canter's method? At least that's where I read about if for the first time right around the time I got my first cast iron. I took to heart the advice to make the linseed coatings as thin as possible and I think I took it to the extreme by using polyester lab wipes. Why those wipes? First, I wasn't happy with the lint left behind by paper towels or cotton fabrics on the somewhat rough cast iron so I started looking for something lint-free. Second, I reasoned that polyester is naturally oleophilic so it would leave behind the smallest possible amount of oil on the surface being wiped. Of course I started with a tiny amount of oil to begin with and the polyester wipe would make it even less. Multiple coats (I think 6-8) and I had a solid foundation. I was pretty happy wit the end result. I used the same method when I got carbon steel skillets. Eggs are a-sliding on those. And even if something sticks it easily comes off with a quick scrub and rinse under hot water. They aren't afraid of detergent, either. Love those things!
Carbon steel skillets for me, too!
Whether cast iron, carbon steel, or stainless, I think it's a good idea to preheat the pan first (on the stove top) . This is because the oil you apply, unless it's *really* thin to begin with, beads up on the surface as the pan gets hot.** Then when you cook the pan in the oven, those beads polymerize. Not what you want, and it doesn't look good (on SS, they may be hard to see). So I preheat the pan and re-wipe it when the beads form. When no more beads form as the pan gets hotter, the oil layer is thin enough to cook.
** Another thing I've never read about but I see it all the time.
TomP
As for PBW: I used it in my beer brewing days. But I always thought it was corrosive on aluminum. Not sure where I got that idea. But then again I didn't have aluminum pots or pans. Nowadays I use ghetto PBW and it works very well for the deeper cleaning that needs to be done sometimes. Looks like I can use it for more than I thought. Thanks for the tip(s)!
I loved that article, thanks! Although I most likely would not be able to use that formula because our water is not just hard, but bordering on very hard, I loved the Oxyclean scoop tip, that it is graded and we can measure ounces of powder with it to make a gallon (or more) of cleaning liquid. Nice! I will test the Oxyclean-based version of PBW knock off in my kitchen and then use its scoop.
PBW manufacturer says on their website that it is safe to use on all soft metals, plastic, etc. It is very well buffered and used in low concentrations for a short time anyways. And your L11 is brand new! :)
I now wanna bake something in my L11 too! Thanks for inspiring me and for the interesting conversation as well.
There are some long running threads and even more info about DIY PBW on homebrewing forums. If you try it just make sure to get OxiClean Free with no dyes or perfumes.
In the US the name 'margarine' went away and it's now called 'vegetable oil spread'. More honest, really. But they all contain less than 2% lecithin.
Can you give us an example of a margarine brand that has a lot of lecithin?
Hi!
Industrial emulsions used inside bread baking pans to make them non-stick contain 22-25% fat and the rest is water (75-78%). Inside that fat 1/4 to 1/3 is phospholipids, for example lecithin.
So "a lot of lecithin" means a lot in proportion to the total fat in light spreads/margarines.
If 14g of spread contains only 4g of total fat (30% fat spread as in I can't believe it's not butter light) , then it needs only 1 g of it to be lecithin and 3g - other oils. This is richer in lecithin than commercial emulsions used in bread baking pans (5-7% of the total weight of emulsion).
Most importantly, I tested it in practice and our Canadian low and ultra low far margarine spreads (30-50%fat) do make baking pans non-stick whereas full fat margarine and butter (80%fat) do not perform well, bread absorbs it and then sticks terribly. Even if they had full 2% lecithin, it is too little in proportion to the total fat %.
Very interesting info as always, mariana! I'll give that stuff a try.
what those pans were called. The L7 size looks interesting. Is there a reasonable source for them in the US?
What are sizes larger than the L7 called?
L6 is the biggest I've seen and I've got one. it's just slightly bigger than an L7 and has a volume of 2000ml brimful.
Lance
It looks like there is no stateside source, and these need to be ordered from Ukraine.
Have you found yours useful?
Yes, I like using them. They are nice and tall which is good. I cannot believe some of the non-pro bread tins which are only about 2 1/2" tall.
I also have the L12a which is smaller, but in good proportion. I believe it is known as the Borodino/Borodinsky tin. I don't think you can get the L6 anymore. The Ukranian sellers never sold it - mine came from Russia via Ebay back in the day.
Lance
Yeah, I like the proportions as well. I don't get why the domestic pans, even the well-made ones, are so short. I found the L6 on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225477530663
Seller is in Ukraine. Pricey for just one but a pair is more reasonable. His feeedback says delivery is quick.
Well spotted - I couldn't see them on Ebay UK. I think mine was pricey when I got it, but it did come with a "free" bag of Solod!
= clever marketing!
from the seller I linked to above. Delivery was just under two weeks... pretty amazing from a war zone. I actually ordered an L6 and L7 but they sent two L7's... the 2mm difference in length is not worth fussing over. Haven't used them yet but they look well made. Mass is the same as a similar-size steel Pullman without the cover, so thermal capacity should be superior, which is the whole point of using one.
Yesterday I made a whole-rye version of one of RusBrot's 100% ryes with CLAS (used 20% more yeast, 3 hr proof), and baked in an L7 pan. Fantastic results! If you like chewey crusts, these pans are the bee's knees!
I've experienced the same thing with bread machines. The ones that bake the best use cast aluminum pans and bake hot.