August 25, 2023 - 6:54am
Looking for recipe using AP flour sourdough bread
Hello, all.
I'm thrilled to report that I finally have my starter doing amazing. It actually bubbled over last night when I accidentally left it on the counter. I am using about 80% all purpose and 20% rye in my starter.
I am looking for a basic sourdough round loaf bread recipe that uses all purpose flour and not bread flour.
I don't actually have any bread flour on hand.(I have converted all purpose to bread flour in the past using vital wheat gluten, but I don't want to use that now because part of the reason I am making sourdough is for my gluten sensitivity.)
I do have rye flour and hard white whole wheat on hand. Do I have to use bread flour for a better loaf?
Thanks everyone!
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Do I have to use bread flour for a better loaf?
Absolutely not! Simply 65% AP with 20% starter will make be lovely loaf. Adding say 10% whole wheat would be a pleasant addition. Or 10% of most anything - masa harina, rye, buckwheat, oatmeal, ...
But sticking with wheat additions (or simply using all AP) will make for the easiest bread to work with, for starting out.
Thank you, Tom.
Could you please double check my math to make sure I'm getting this right!
You always start with flour at 100%, so if I am using 750g flour then:
750x20=150g starter
750x70= 525 water
750x2=15g salt.
Right? I think (hope) I'm getting it.
I guess there are other ratios depending on flour and what you are making but this would be basic bread. I know you posted this earlier but I cannot find the post!
Thanks again.
Yes, I get the same numbers.
TomP
it reads better flour 750g = 100%
1% = 7.5g
starter 20% x 7.5 = 150g
and so on
Yes. Thanks!
Yes. Thanks!
Congrats on getting your starter nicely active!
My recommendation would be the venerable 1-2-3 formula for an easy sourdough bread. You mix 1 part starter with 2 parts water and 3 parts flour. If you want a 900g loaf, that would look like this:
225g Active Starter
450g Water
675g Flour (I agree with Tom, make 10% of this the hard white you have)
12-13g Salt
You could look at any of the "beginner" sourdough recipes that are out there on line for any of the process that you may want to use (mixing, stretching/folding, etc.) I'm a fan of Maurizio Leo at the Perfect Loaf (www.theperfectloaf.com), so would recommend using his beginner sourdough as a guide. Or, you could skip the 1-2-3 above, and just make Maurizio's beginner loaf with the flour you have on hand.
Just a couple thoughts. Good luck with your first loaf/ves with your starter!
Rich
Thank you, Rich.I
really like that 123 recipe. I'm going to add that to my sourdough notebook that I have started and will definitely be trying that!
I'm having so much fun I don't even want to put the starter in the fridge!
Kimberly
yes, 1-2-3 is good too (I use it as 3-6-9, as in 3 oz starter, 6 oz water, 9 oz flour will make 6 English muffins). As I've said before, simple is good, especially for starting out!
TomP
In fact, the difference between what I suggested and 1-2-3 is that mine comes out to be 0.9-2.1-3. Not enough different to worry about.
TomP
It looked close, Tom, but I didn't do the math. :) That's funny!
Rich
Kimberly, just for reference, that 1-2-3 formula works out to 71% hydration including the water and flour in the starter. I made uncounted numbers of 1-2-3 loaves when I was really getting started, as it was (a) easy to remember, and (b) easy to customize to suit what flour I had on hand, or that I wanted to use in an experiment.
And, wise move with the notebook! I'm not as fastidious about it these days, but I still refer back to my notes from the first few years I was doing this. :)
Rich
Hi Kimberley
( we have a very large District of Western Australia named "The Kimberley")
https://www.australia.com/en/places/broome-and-surrounds/guide-to-the-kimberley.html)
Notebbook is a must, record everything you can it helps you to review what you did, it helps to replicate the good and avoid the mistakes. As im getting older its becoming even more important especially variations to recipes , temperatures and times of each sequence. as they happen. invaluable if asking for help trouble shooting or indeed passing on as a great recipe to others.
i find the sketch pads really good as there is plenty of room @22cm x 30cm, i have used out of date diaries that can be picked up really cheap around March day to a page is good although i often use the two open pages one for quick notes and the other side for the formula and recipe.
Now that you can look at a given recipe and know the flour to be 100% and the corresponding value of 1% you will be able to look at many recipes and check to see the parameters.
Can i urge you and all members to fill in some of your user profile it helps other TFL members at least know where abouts you are in this big wide kitchen, Clicking on mine lets you know i'm in Perth Western Australia, so i might well be able to assist fellow Australians and in particular West Australians with advice and recommendations on Flours and where to find them. It can also lead to chances to meet like minded souls that can be in your area. i've actually met quite a few TFL folk either in their own countries or if they have been coming over here, great experiences!
i also feel like its a persons introduction to fellow TFL members. When i read someones question or post and the click on their avatar and it comes up blank for me its like knocking and the front door and no one is home, so its easy to move right on along,
For instance another of your respondents whose Avater is highlighted tells me he is in San Mateo county California which is great he also tells me a little more about himself and his gear, i already feel i know the guy ! Well done Rich!
Maybe that's just me but maybe not.
kind regards Derek
...and you just reminded me to check in on my profile and see if anything needs updating! :)
Every time I fire up the bakery for a batch (for personal consumption, or sale), I print a sheet I made up that has all of my ingredients for the formula x number of loaves with some space to scribble my notes as I go. If that batch turns out more or less the same as previous ones, I don't necessarily keep it, but even if it just helps me to keep myself organized THAT day, it's very useful. ....and, as you say, if something doesn't go quite right, I can often narrow down where things were different by reading through the notes. :)
Rich
Spot on Rich! and as the grey matter slowly congeals its essential especially if you are passing on information to others, if its not written down its so easy to miss or get things wrong
Hello, Derek.
I haphazardly scribbled most of early notes in a journal which I plan on rewriting into my sourdough notebook. I made so many mistakes early on but I have learned so much from everyone here on this forum.
And it's only because of you all that I got my starter going. It's been such a great learning experience and now I get up every day thinking about what I'm going to make. (I just made the most amazing sourdough discard waffles using fresh milled whole wheat, from a King Arthur recipe!)
And I will go ahead and update my profile and avatar. Thanks for that gentle nudge.
Kimberly
Coats, North Carolina
I just made the most amazing sourdough discard waffles using fresh milled whole wheat, from a King Arthur recipe!
Yum!
Try some buckwheat pancakes made with discard. Super!
TomP
I'm going to need more pantry space for all of these amazing grains! I've heard buckwheat pancakes are wonderful!
Kimberly
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/71127/community-bake-naturally-fermented-buckwheat-bread
If you add say an ounce of buckwheat flour to any standard wheat bread, you will be glad you did (except the dough might be a little sticky). You will notice a definite flavor boost, very yummy.
TomP
If I found a recipe that uses bread flour but I want to use all-purpose flour, how much should I adjust the water?
The recipe I found, from King Arthur is this:
227g starter
397g water
600g bread flour
18g salt.
Which would be 38% starter, and 66%water, right? A different ratio for sure.
I am in the middle of it (I started before getting your above advice!) and It is still a pretty wet dough, after 3 s&f. I wonder if I need to add some more flour or will it dry up on its own?
Thanks,
Kimberly
If you include the flour and water in the starter, the hydration is about 71%, which with AP flour would be a little high but not that much. That's assuming your starter has a 100% hydration. Bread flour generally soaks up more water, so the dough should feel a little firmer and less sticky than it would have with AP.
Remember my suggestion to use 20% starter? This recipe has quite a bit more, and will be wetter and stickier than my suggestion. But it should still be very manageable.
I'm not sure about how much less water AP would need, and it can depend very much on the flours, but maybe 3 - 4 percentage points of hydration might be in the vicinity. This would be for King Arthur or Gold Medal AP vs bread flours.
I wouldn't add flour at this stage. If the dough seems too wet, there are several possibilities:
1. The dough is fine, but you aren't used to handling this kind of dough yet;
2. Some characteristic of the flour you are using would do better with less water;
3. You haven't stretched the dough as much as you might have, or the S&F sessions could have been less frequent, or you might do one more S&F session;
4. You measured something wrong;
5. The starter had gotten too thin (too long since the last refresh) and some of that thinness is showing up in the dough;
6. Your starter has more water in it than 100% hydration.
I'm voting for #1.
It's one of those things where, if I or Abe or Debra or one of the other commenters could be there with you we could probably sort it out quickly, but as it is we can only go on written descriptions.
For a wet dough that is hard to handle, you could try wetting your hands with water before touching the dough.
If the dough is still wet and floppy and hard to handle when you go to make a preform and then shape the loaf, you can shower it with flour (AP is fine) before or while you handle it. That will help quite a bit.
TomP
Hello Kimberly,
Read through your posts and thought as you are looking at different formulas for flours/ingredients and calculations thereof.
I have developed a spreadsheet that may help you in your journey of making many great loaves. You can download a sample here.
https://metricsbaking.wixsite.com/metricsbaking/samplespreadsheet
The sheet has a variety of tables including a Yeast converter and a Preferment's generator. (All of which can be redefined by the user). That's all over and above the usual pounds/ounces/gram, volume and bakeware calculators that are included.
The sheet can also compare multiple recipes, ingredient quantities and it automatically converts ingredient weights into bakers percent. Easy to read recipe cards with both an original recipe weight and a revised weight for alternative yields can also be produced. There is a note section on each row in to help get the best results.
Rafe
Quick as a jiffy, no knead Italian bread.
I decided to proof the round in a bannoton because it is such a wet dough. (87% hydration) the proofed dough looks great. However, due to obthe high hydration I know it will be a bear to score. So I put it bannoton and all into the freezer for a quick 20 minutes. The end game soon
It would have benefited from a few steach & folds during the first rise. That being said, it looks good. I will add the crumb shot tonight.
OMG! So good, light as a feather! Make sure you check all the photos!
Ingredients
406g. (3 1/4 cups) Unbleached AP Flour.
2 tsp. Instant yeast
1 tsp. Diastatic malt powder (Substitute granulated sugar)
1tsp kosher Salt
355g ( 1 1/2 Cups) warm water 90°F
process
1 Mix the flour, Malt, yeast, and salt in a large bowl
2 Add the water and mix well. Making sure all the dry ingredients are hydrated. It will be sticky.
3. Continue to work the dough just until a wet shaggy ball forms. Handle the dough as little as possible.
4 cover the bowl with plastic wrap.
5 allow bulk ferment (rising) for 2-3 hours until doubled in volume.
6. Flour the work surface and your hands. Fold the dough over itself on all the tour sides.
7 shape into a nice round. Place on a baking tray or parchment paper to transfer on to your stone.
8 allow to proof (second rise) About 45 minutes to 1hour. Untill doubled.
Meanwhile preheat the oven to 500°F
9 score the top of the dough. Just a simple X is fine.
10 transfer the banking sheet to the oven, or directly to your stone.
Add about 1/2 cup of water in a shallow pan on the bottom right f of he oven.
11 lower the oven temperature to 450°F
12 Bake for 45 minutes. Until golden brown, and tapping the bottom of the bread sounds hollow.
13That's all folks!
Thank you!
Another recipe to add to my list. Looks great.
Kimberly
King Arthur Baking has Hamelman's popular Vermont Sourdough:
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/recipes/vermont-sourdough-recipe