The Fresh Loaf

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Panettone Questions

tothpianopeter's picture

Panettone Questions

Good afternoon!

I just made panettone that you can see in my most recent blog post, here:

I followed the procedure that I had outlined here:

I have a couple of questions. I hope some of the panettone experts on TFL will read this and be able to address my questions. 

1. I have noticed that the maturation of the primo impasto as well as the secondo impasto have been much quicker for me than the usual times. I follow Giorilli's recommended temperatures, 24-25 degrees Celsius for the first dough, and around 28 degrees Celsius for the second dough. My first dough more than tripled already after 10 hours, which is rather quick, I think 9 hours would have been sufficient but for that I would have had to wake up at 5 am. My second dough was fully proofed only after four hours! In Giorilli's formula, the recommended time for the second dough at 28 degrees is 6-8 hours. Mine would have totally overproofed by that time. Is there any reason my dough rises faster than normal despite the fact that I carefully observe the temperatures? Is there such a thing as a too active pasta madre?

2. My panettoni always get a little deformed when I invert them upside down. See the picture at the bottom. You can see the wrinkles on the mold right where the skewers were during baking. That slight deformation always occurs when I grab the skewers and invert the panettone. I guess my question is: is there an unclumsy way to perform the inversion without deforming the loaf? They are so delicate right after baking that I am not sure how it can be done!

SueVT's picture

Your first issue with speed of fermentation/rising is the topic of many posts here, and there are multiple reasons that this can happen. However, you have had a very good result! 

On the second point though, I skewer the panettoni after taking them out of the oven, working quickly to avoid deflation. When doing this, put the loaf on a flat surface and insert a metal skewer (less friction) just above the bottom paper, about 1/3 of the way across from the edge. You are skewering prior to baking, and inserting them about an inch up from the bottom. This will always result in some tearing, particularly with this brand of paper pan. If you use the pleated Novacart ones, this will happen less. Also watch the internal temperature you are baking to. I do 93 to 94C, as results varied at 92C depending on the inclusions. Finally, the Giorilli recipe is a "tender" recipe, which produces a delicious soft texture, so this will make skewering more critical.

I use dual prong skewers most of the time, as they are more gentle on the crumb. Two single metal ones work also.

tothpianopeter's picture

Thank you very much for your comment. Your observations on skewering are very helpful. I should try to insert them as close to the bottom as possible. The reason for not doing it that way is that I bake my panettoni on a metal tray with the skewers already inserted, and it would be difficult to grab them by the skewers if they are at the bottom. I have to figure out how to overcome that problem.

I have never dared to insert the skewers after baking, as I am always too nervous at that point, knowing that I have about 30 seconds to do the job before they start collapsing. But I know that many people do it that way with great success. Inserting them prior to baking just gives me a peace of mind.

fredsbread's picture

Would it be possible to invert the sheet pan? I don't think you need to contain any liquids, you just need a solid surface for the mold to rest on. So if you used the pan upside down, you wouldn't have to deal with the rim getting in the way.

tothpianopeter's picture

That's actually a great idea. I will try it next time. Thanks for the suggestion!