March 26, 2023 - 5:28pm
Pan Ner' di Val d'Aosta Rye
This is the Black Bread of Val d'Aosta from "The Rye Baker". 70% medium rye, 30% bread flour (the book calls for AP flour and dividing the dough into 3 loaves; I made one 1.8 kg miche).
The formula calls for 5% total sesame - sunflower - flax seeds in the dough. I can't see them, but they do impart a subtle and pleasant flavor.
I think it's really tasty, just terrific for smoked fish, cheese, etc.
BTW, I waited 24 hrs after the bread cooled before slicing it. That was not easy.
Fantastic! I'd love to try this. I'm traveling and all I've had the past few weeks is Navajo fry bread (I'm not complaining, mind you: when it's fresh it's great.) Is there any chance you can post a summary of the process?
Thanks for your gracious comments. Here is the formula from "The Rye Baker"
Black Bread of Val d'Aosta - "The Rye Baker"
I use bread flour rather than the formula AP for a bit more lift. I mixed the dough by hand with a bowl scraper and lots of folds in the bowl; I needed a little more water than the formula called for. My starter (whole rye) likes 75 F when a formula says room temp; I use the B & T proofer; the signs of full fermentation and proofing are typically at or a little beyond the formula times.
I baked the entire batch of dough as one miche in my dutch oven; 15 minutes covered and the rest of the formula time open.
Have a great trip. We going to Greece soon. The food will be wonderful, but I don't expect to find much whole grain bread.
Thanks so much -- and thanks for your personal tips. I will give this a try once I get back to my starter.
From seeing all your bakes, I am going to order the book you are having so much fun with!
Thank you for showing them and all the write ups!
I have largely settled in to using "Bread" by Jeffrey Hamelman, 3rd edition (2nd edition is fine, but I like the 3rd edition a a little better) and "The Rye Baker" by Stanley Ginsburg. Both are available as e-books, which is my preference. https://theryebaker.com has some formulas not in the book, and vice versa.
"Bread" has an incredible amount of information which bears occasional re-reading. One tip I noticed in an obscure location after a re-reading was the advice to use 25 - 50% more starter for home baking than the commercial batch metric formulas call for (typically around 10 loaves). There is a mass effect; bigger batches/loaves seem to work better than smaller ones, at least for me. So after scaling the commercial quantities down, bump up the amount of starter.
I have collected formulas and some tips and explanations from various books and web sites here: Bread Formulas
Maybe I didn't have to get the book after all with all your formulas!
Both "Bread" and "The Rye Baker" have a lot of general information and techniques and tips not in my notes. You can see previews of both books on-line. "Bread" includes chapters on breads with straight doughs, preferments, sourdough, sourdough rye, and others that don't fit elsewhere. The 3rd edition includes several international recipes from the author's colleagues and friends. WIth the 3rd edition out, you may be able to get a 2nd edition hardcopy cheap.
"The Rye Baker" is organized regionally; the breads in each region tend to have some common flavors.
I am looking forward to this book RB, especially as a friend told me of her experience in Poland with their rye.
It is quite a spread of rye types that I never heard of before last year.
I often go to Alibris for the older copies of books and hopefully the 2nd ed of Bread will be there.
Thank you again for these references.
Your loaf turned out beautifully!
I made this recipe a couple of months ago and should have added more water like you did. I thought the hydration at 58% to be unusually low for a rye bread and I found the baked loaf a little dry. How much extra water did you add?
The hydration levels in some of Ginsberg's recipes seem off—too high or low—and others work out perfectly. Has this been your experience?
I will note that the recipe for this bread can be found on an Italian website and Ginsberg used it verbatim.
Thanks for your kind comments.
I always start with the hydration in the book (usually "The Rye Baker" or "Bread"). If I can't get the flour to incorporate when mixing the sourdough or a final dough, I'll dribble in water very slowly, like 1/2 tsp on top of the dry flour at the bottom of the bowl. I'll mix some more, and add more water if there is flour still not being picked up. In this case I think I used maybe 1 tsp total extra for the sourdough and maybe 2-3 times that in the final dough (on top of the formula amount).
I assume that the flour I'm used that day, usually Great River Dark Rye (for the starter and dark/whole rye formulas), KA Organic Rye (for medium rye), or KA Bread Flour just needed more water than the flour on which the formula was based. In this case, Ginsburg's formula calls for AP flour; I used KA bread flour for some help with the volume. Higher protein usually needs higher hydration.
I'm not great at building strength in slack doughs, so I don't go past the formula hydration except to make sure that the all the flour incorporates. Hamelman's Workday 100% Whole Wheat call for 80% hydration but the text says something like "Feel free to add more water if it suits your baking style". It might be fun to try a 90 - 100% hydration in loaf pans. But I'm generally happy with the closed but not dense crumb at 80%; more importantly, my wife likes it.