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teketeke's picture
teketeke

How I make and maintain raisin yeast water

 Because all of the pictures below are broken. Very sorry for this inconvenience, that my computer crushed and lost all pictures I had.

 

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Once I had made my raisin yeast water, I really didn't care about methods to make - I had mine, and that was all I cared about. After I was asked by some TFL members about yeast water, I realized that I really didn't know what the nature of raisin yeast water was. I 'd like to leave my recent research and thoughts here for anyone who is interested in for reference.

How to make raisin yeast water

Ingredients:

  •   45 g    Raisins( * I use organic Thompson raisins. they are NOT coated with oil, I recommend to use organic one)
  •   Water  ( I used purified this time, I also use filtered water from a refrigerator. NO using chlorine water .
    •  A jar ( I use emptied jelly jars all the time.)
Method    

Day1:

 1) Sterilize your jar:   put the jar in the boiling water for a few minutes and take it out .     Leave it until it is dry.  2) Add the raisins and the water as to 1:1 ratio like the picture below.
(No chlorine water! It kills yeast!) 3)    Shook the jar vigorously  * Tighten the lid Before shakingAfter shaking vigorously  /   Close up4) Keep the jar at 82 F / 28℃. * Tighten the lid ( The right one is correct. the left jar is the other way to make yeast water )5) 4-5 hours later :  * Keep the jar at 82 F / 28℃. Tighten the lid  Before shaking After shaking vigorously * The raisins are soaked with the water. Now it is the time to add more water.6) Add  some purified water until double the raisins.  After shaking vigorously,* Keep the jar at 82 F / 28℃. Tighten the lid 




Day 2  7)  Shake the jar vigorously as many as you can. * Keep the jar at 82 F / 28℃. Tighten the lid

----   I did that was 6:30 am ~  8:20 pm ---    shook  the jar vigorously 13 times. * Tighten the lid* All of the raisins stayed up to the top of the water.     6:20 am  Before shaking 
 After shaking vigorously   * Tighten the lid



8) At the night *Close the lid not too tight not too loose. 
* I think that the yeast needs to get some little oxygen to breath to activate for over night so I didn'tclose the lid tight anymore because the raisins stayed up to the top of the water for a half day.Day 39) In the morning  Shake the jar vigorously.     *Close the lid not too tight not too loose Before shaking    close up After shaking vigorously      Close up10)   Refrigerate it when you hear shwwwwww... sounds while it was fermented at 82 F.).  *Close the lid tightly  after shaking vigorously.Day 411) in the morning: *Close the lid tightly after shaking vigorously andPut it back in the refrigerator . Before shaking  Close up After shaking vigorously     Close upDay 512) In the morning: Shake the jar vigorously.   Tighten the lid and put it back in the refrigerator.   Before shaking   * I smell a bit strong alcohol smell which means fully fermented but it needs more rest before baking bread.     After shaking vigorously  * The alcohol smells was weaken.( mild level)13) At the night( Approximately 12 hours later)-- READY TO BAKE!To make levain for my sandwich loaf with raisin yeast water.Levain:
  • King Arthur all purpose flour   149g
  •  Raisin yeast water                          107g
----------------The day before-----------1. Pour 107 g raisin yeast water into the container. The taste:  Sweet and little bit of alcohol.The result of the PH level test Between PH 5.5 and 5.75.Added 149 g KA AP  and made the levain.Viscosity: Hard. I had to knead by hand.* "Hard " means that there is a lot of sugar in the dough.------------------------------------------------------------------------------Next day--- Final dough
  •  King Arthur bread flour                       281g
  • 1 egg yolk + Whipping heavy cream=58g
  •  Water                                                            144g
  • Sugar                                                                 13g
  • Butter                                                                29g
  • Salt                                                                    6.8g
Method
  1.  Mix all the final ingredients and the levain except the butter and salt.
  2.  Autolyze 30minutes.
  3.  Add the salt and butter and knead until you pass a window pane test.
  4. Bulk fermentation at the room temperature until triples.
  5. Preshape
  6. Shape
  7. Bake  35 minutes at 410F until golden brown.    *Cold oven method:  Spray a couple time  in the oven and put the loaf in.  Set up 284F for 20 minutes. increase the temperature to 410F for 10 minutes, lotate 180 degree the loaf pan and bake 10 more minutes until golden brown.
The levain rose tripled ( 9 hours later)Bulk fermentation: The final dough rose almost tripled in 5 hours at 72-73F.Final proof: The dough rose over the top of the tin in 2 hours at 82F.Baked for 35 minutes at 410 F.( I couldn't use " cold oven method" because I was using the oven a hour ago before )When I ferment the final dough at colder temp, I can see the cracks.          The taste was really good. nice volume.  The crumb was not wet, it was nice texture.I smelled a bit of fruity smell from the raisins when I sliced it after 5 hours I baked, but the smell was very slightly and very pleasant.-------------------------------------------------------------  Comparison:5/267 :00 am--   From left: No lid / Vigorous shakes/ my old one - generous shakes10:30 am--  From left: No lid/ Vigorous shakes/ my old one5/27 5:50 am  From left: No lid/ Vigorous shakes/ my old one (I just refreshed)Comparison of the crumb:   ( 12 g sugar not 13g  used in the final dough)  Vigorous shakes    No lid* I didn't like No lid bread because I smelled strong yeast like Active dry yeast when I put it in my mouth.No lid raisin yeast water itself  has no strong yeast smell neither taste , which gave me a surprise.Our taste gives us more details than this PH test in my opinion.----------------------------------------------

For reference,  I want to mention about yeast water that I found from some Japanese sites  and the others from winery .

"Yeasts will activate in two different ways:
1. with oxygen:
{Sugar -C6H12O6+Oxygen--O2}→{ Carbon dioxide-Co2+Water -H2O} 
(* We call it " Breath" which means the yeast is active. )

2. with no oxygen:

{Sugar-C6H12O6 }→{Carbon dioxide gas 2(CO2) + Alcohol(Ethyl alcohol)-2(CH3CH2OH)}

(※ We call it "Alcohol fermentation")When there is no sugar in, it turns to acetic acid ( quite sour), except apple and raisin which contain malic acid. ( milder )

When we make raisin yeast water using a jar, The yeast water will activate with the oxygen in the jar first ( Breath), and occur alcohol fermentation when it is no oxygen in the jar. Alcohol has bactericidal action which prevents to have mold and unwanted bacteria. Natural yeast is tolerant to alcohol so that they live together, however, he doesn't grow without new oxygen.While alcohol fermentation is working, natural yeast stops growing, therefore, it is not time to congratulate yourself yet because of the bubbles ( carbon dioxide gas) , you have to get more oxygen to have your yeast water activate by loosing a lid to access air ( oxygen) into your yeast water.

To make non sour bread, grow Saccharomyces cerevisiae ( S.ellipsoides) in the raisin yeast BEFORE Lactic and acetic acid bacterias grow at proper temperature. Saccharomayces cerecisiae will be tolerant to them. ( Saccharomayces cerecisiae >Lactic acid and acetic bacteria)

*Lactic bacteria and acetic bacteria are in the air. Especially acetic bacteria increases in summer. They exist in the air and grow in all kind of fruit and vegetables and other kind of food that they contain glucose. To make kimchi, we use the power of lactic bacteria that is in the Chinese cabbage. Japanese sake is also used the power of lactic acid bacteria that is in the rice. Acetic bacteria will really activate at over 30℃. To make sweet raisin yeast water ( or other fruit yeast), We should fully grow Saccharomyces cerevisiae ( S.ellipsoides) in the raisin yeast ( or other fruit yeast) BEFORE lactic and acetic bacteria grow. Lactic bacteria is not bad when we make yogurt yeast to make sweet bread. When Lactic bacteria is fully grown in yogurt yeast, Other unwanted bacteria can't grow in the yogurt yeast because the lactic bacteria is tolerant to them at proper temperature. * Exception: Sourdough

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*How I maintain my raisin yeast water: *Use a sterilized jar and filtered water. (no chlorine water) 

*And the raisins are NOT coated with OIL. Organic ones taste much better.


* I don't measure the water actually but by volume like the picture above.

Ingredients:This volume will be about
  • 13-25g raisin yeast water (5-7% -in the summer  10-11% in the winter) *  The temperature by the snake light differs from all season so that I adjust the raisin yeast water amount by the room temperature.
  • 45 g raisins                   (20%)
  • 225 g water                   ( 100%)
Method:1) Shake the jar vigorously after putting all the ingredients in the jar.2) Close the lid not too tight /not too loose and keep it at 76-82F around for overnight.3) Shake the jar vigorously and store it in the refrigerator. ( I don't discard the raisins in the jar)* It is very important to keep some sugar in your yeast water not to get your yeast water hungry. I use the refreshed raisin yeast water after 12 hours I store it in the refrigerator to stabilize.

4) Shake the jar vigorously every morning 1 time to get some f your raisin yeast water.     I shake it vigorously every morning and night which is  2 times in total  now.  (September,20011)

If you store it more than several days, I will  *refresh it before baking.*Using this maintain raisin yeast water method.

Here is the link that you might be interested in:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeast--------------------------------------------------------------Other methods that I found in Japanese sites1)http://levadura.exblog.jp/12421595/

I read one of Japanese home baker’s method of making raisin yeast water: To make non sour (sweet) and well risen bread, she tighten the lid and shake the jar gently once or twice a day during the process, and she said" if you make bread with this yeast water, you will have dense bread because the yeast didn't get enough oxygen while it was fermented although the taste is wonderfully sweet. In according to make bread that has volume, she add mashed mixed fruit in the yeast water to ferment it again in a bowl that is covered with plastic wrap at room temperature .It sounds good, but it will give me more work. I rather make raisin yeast simply in good condition.

2) No lid method:

http://cookpad.com/recipe/543057 She tested 2 kind of methods between with lid and no lid like me.  She said that No lid doesn't have any alcohol smell and rise very well. She is right but I had a different result after baking. I smelled alcohol from the crumb and the crumb remains wetter in the crumb but I also think that no lid one rise well in the oven.

This is the result:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s46/sh/aae4b7bd-4181-42f3-b4fd-af43f60b70d7/bfbb002b43291f87240bb662ec67d05e

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Q & A:

Q:  Does the taste of yeast water affect to the bread?

A: I say " Yes" That is why I smell and taste my raisin yeast water if it is fine. My raisin yeast water is  sweet with mild alcohol generally. When the raisin yeast water is just made, You may smell strong alcohol, but it will be milder and read to bake in the next day.  If you smell sour or funny, I strongly recommend you to throw away all of your raisin yeast water, and make a new one.

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Q : Why do you shake it vigorously during the process?

A: I have two purposes. I can squeeze more sugar to feed the raisin yeast water by the vigorous shakes, which also activate the raisin yeast.I don't recommend this technique for fresh fruit yeast water which have bitter skins because the bitters remains in the yeast water and the bread.

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Q:  Can I use a water bottle to make raisin yeast water ?

A: I prefer a jar. It depends on you.  However, I highly recommend not to use a weak water bottle like "Walt-mart" brand.I tested it before. On the second day, I smelled some chemical from the bottle. Although I noticed that the raisin yeast water in the bottle had a lot of bubbles and very active, which reminded me of  the process to make beer.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSrbukazO_Q

Day 1                   Day2 ------------------------------------------------------------Q:  How do make bread with raisin yeast water?A:  I use my yeast water like sourdough I used to have.Example: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23726/thank-you-syd I also use my raisin yeast water as sherry wine or mirin ( sweet Japanese sake for cooking) to make teriyaki sauce, orange sour chicken sauce, and so on. I also keep my alcoholic raisins that are fermented in the jar for home made rum raisins. So I can make Daisy's Panettone.http://www.thfreshloaf.com/node/21104/my-first-panettone-milanese-notes-trial-run-formula-and-method-thanks-all-advice Once, I used 2 tbsp this rum syrup to fix the sour flavor when I made David's miche:http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23593/david039s-miche-raisin-yeast-water ( NO.5) Home made rum raisins.I add some sugar in whenever I add more alcoholic raisins.I discard the raisins that I make raisin yeast water from beginning because they are smashed and less sugar left in them.-------------------------------------------------

Q :  Is it okay to smell strong alcohol from my raisin yeast water?

A: Yes. When the raisin yeast water is just made, You may smell strong alcohol, but it will be milder and read to bake in the next day. Also,If your raisin yeast water is kept in the refrigerator for a couple days only, It will be fine. If you smell it strong, I will shake the jar vigorously. The smell will be weaken.   It is very important to see how active your raisin yeast water is. Very healthy one is the raisins keep floating  around the top of the water, and you can hear strong pops ( shwwww..) when you shake it and open it up.Here is the result of a sandwich loaf when I used my old raisin yeast water that was little strong alcohol smell.https://www.evernote.com/shard/s46/sh/039147ff-264d-4fa4-959d-65cf8cab1c3c/94659bd4a5655d3db0b0b2d4ddc79392------------------------------------------------------------Q:  How is it different from between non organic and organic raisins?

A: I have some experiments using Sun-maid raisins ( golden and regular ones)

Regular one is okay, but I tasted weird flavor in the bread a little bit when I compare to organic one.I strongly recommend not to use sun-maid golden raisins. It smelled and tasted very weird.

------------------------------------------------------------Q: Is it okay that my raisin yeast water sank on the bottom in the refrigerator?A: This is depends. If  all of the raisins doesn't float back up to the top of the water within a day after shaking vigorously, I think that the yeast is weak or some unwanted bacterias are in it.  I did throw it away and  made a new one when I had the problem. It happened when I didn't take care of the raisin yeast water for a couple weeks.------------------------------------------------------------Q; What temperature is better to make bread for raisin yeast water?

AFor Levain bread:

In the summer, I  use colder temperature around 70-73 F for bulk fermentation, 70-76 F around for final proof   .

In the winter, The temperature is around 76F for Bulk fermentation, 70-76F for final proof.

I think that raisin yeast water bread is not sour unless you retard it for a long time.  But it differs from what king of flour you use.  Rye and Whole wheat flour give it more acid or earthy flavor.

Happy baking,

Akiko

Shiao-Ping's picture
Shiao-Ping

Gérard Rubaud Miche

I dedicate my Gérard Rubaud Miche to MC.

(I wish that it could be transported across the Pacific Ocean to reach the other shore.)

 

It was one of those soulful Van Morrison nights.  The music in my tea room could not be any louder; any louder, the gods of silent teapots would have protested.  John Donne was in the air.  Van Morrison, my muse, dreamt of this miche for me.... 

 

               

 

                                                                                                   

 

I have neglected my teapots for the longest time now.  They have not been polished for ... dare I reveal ... a year?  Sounds criminal.  Just as well, with all that flour coming out of the surface of the miche, do I need to bother dusting my teapot stands?

 

Gérard Rubaud starter (re-sized to 2% of his formula as recounted HERE in MC's blog; my figures are for a final dough yield of 1.9 kg, you are welcome to half my quantity again)

First build

  • 6 g ripe stiff starter (at this quantity, any starter you've got going is fine, preferably not liquid starter)
  • 8 g water
  • 14 g flour (2 g WW, 1 g spelt, 1 g rye, and 10 g plain flour)

Note: Gérard Rubaud's starter hydration averages 55.5%.  The main thrust of his starter is three refreshes and built with the same flour compositions as for his final dough; ie. 30% whole grains flours (60% wheat, 30% spelt, and 10% rye) and 70% all-purpose flour.

At 30 degree C, this build took 10 1/2 hours for me (overnight temperature might have dropped to 24 - 25 degree C in my kitchen).

Second build

  • 28 g starter (from the first build above)
  • 16 g water
  • 30 g flour (5 g WW, 3 g spelt, 1 g rye, and 21 g plain flour)

At 30 degree C, this build took 6 hours for me..

Third build

  • 74 g starter (from the second build above)
  • 56 g water
  • 100 g flour (18 g WW, 9 g spelt, 3 g rye, and 70 g plain)

Note:  Watch your starter fermentation carefully, depending on your room temperatures.  As flour (fresh food) is not even 1.5 times the starter, it is very easy to over-ferment at this stage.  It was not an issue for the previous two builds as the yeast adjusted to the new flour compositions and began its activity slowly.  

At 30 degree C, this build took 4 hours for me (and it was already too long because when I touched my starter, it shrank back very quickly; 3 1/2 hours would have been better).  It rose 2 1/2 times.

Gérard Rubaud Final Dough

Main points about the final dough construction are (1) final dough flour is 30% whole grain flours and 70% all-purpose flour as for starter; (2) starter is 25% of final dough flour (ie, 25% baker's percentage); and (3) overall dough hydration is 80%.

  • 230 g starter (all from the third build above)
  • 920 g flour (165 g WW, 83 g spelt, 28 g rye, and 644 g plain flour)
  • 772 g water (every 10 -11 g of water is 1% dough hydration; feel free to reduce water if you wish)
  • 20 g salt

Total dough weight was 1,920 grams (minus 150 g as pâte fermentée = 1,770 g, see below) and overall dough hydration was 80%. 

Note:

(1) I did double my own formula here (both starter and final dough) because I wanted to do a stencil with Gérard Rubaud initials and I wasn't sure if it would be successful. 

(2) I reserved 150 grams from each dough and I had 300 grams as pâte fermentée (old dough) in total from the two doughs. I wanted to try a Poilâne style of miche.  Giovanni has done extensive research on Poilâne Miche.  Without going into the specifics, all that I wanted to do at this stage was to use Gérard Rubaud's stiff starter and dough with the addition of a reserved old dough to make a miche and see what happens, which I did.  

(3) So, in total I made three x my own formula here at two separate occasions, the last being a Gérard Rubaud Miche with pâte fermentée.  

Procedure - without pâte fermentée

Gérard Rubaud autolyse flour and water, then he cuts up his stiff levain into small pieces and adds them to the autolysed flour and water mixture.  However, the way I did the bread in this post was that I first diluted my starter with water, then I added flour and salt into the diluted starter, then I followed the procedure below.

  1. Autolyse 20 minutes.
  2. Five sets of S&F's of 30 strokes each at 30 minutes intervals.  
  3. At the end of the last S&F's, section off a piece of dough weighing 150 grams (and placed it in the fridge) to be used as pâte fermentée (more below).
  4. Pre-shape and shape, then place the dough in the fridge for overnight retarding.  (My room temperature was 30 degree C.  It was exactly three hours from the time the ingredients were mixed to the time the shaped dough was placed in the fridge.  You may need longer depending on your dough temperature and room temperature.  Gérard Rubaud does not like to retard dough, but I did 9 hour retarding for convenience).
  5. The next morning, stencil, then score the dough.  Pre-heat your oven to as hot as it can go.  Bake with steam at 230 C for 50 minutes.

 

       

       Gérard Rubaud Miche (without pâte fermentée) 

                                                                                                      

 

Only one of the two miches that I made is shown here, as the stencil of the other one was completely smeared.  The proved dough of that one was quite high (its profile was like a tall hill); when I placed the stencil on its surface and dusted flour on it, the flour did not sit well on the surface.  I knew there might be problem but went ahead any way.  I should have tried to press the stencil closer to the surface of the dough before I dusted flour.

Notwithstanding the above, the aroma was most amazing when the miche was being baked.  When the oven door opened, the whole house was filled with the wonderful whole grains roasting fragrance.

The loaves cooled down to have the cracks all over their surface - the top and all around the sides.  Part of the reason for that is because these are very high hydration doughs, but more because I tend NOT to leave my dough in the oven with the oven turned off for the last 5 - 10 minutes of baking as many of TFL home bakers do.  I tend to give my dough full but shorter bake.  The extreme difference in temperatures inside and outside the oven results in the crackling effect on the crusts.

 

       

 

                                                     

 

With this Gérard Rubaud formula, I am witnessing the most amazing crumb that I have never seen before.  It has a translucent quality about it.  It is almost as if each and every particle of the flour had been fermented and each and every cell of the dough has been aerated.  I have never seen anything quite like it.  It is light and yet a slice of it on you palm feels a weight, a substance.  While the crumb looks translucent, it has a sheen as if it is oily (but it is not).  You can clearly see the specks of the whole grain flours in the crumb.  Had I not made this bread myself, I would not have believed that 30% whole grain flours would give me a crumb like this. 

So that is the texture.  What about the flavor?  I cannot tell you any single flavor.  No one taste stands out.   I cannot say that it is sour because sourness does not stand out.  The taste is very "creamy" if I may use that word.  The creaminess and the sourness are beautifully balanced. 

MC said of her Rustic Batard that it tastes more whole grains than Gérard's and she wondered if temperature had made a difference as Gérard's bakery is a good 15 degree F warmer than her place.  Now, my miche does NOT taste whole grains or wheaty at all.  I cannot single out a wheaty taste, but it is there, blended in with all the other flavors.  I wonder if my high temperature indeed had made a difference in this.  Or, put another way, had MC bulk fermented and proved her Rustic Batard in a proofing box to control temperatures, would she have gotten a closer taste in her Rustic Batard to Gérard's.

 

Procedure - with pâte fermentée

(Note: the formula is exactly the same as above except with the inclusion of 300 grams of pâte fermentée)

Follow the procedure as for miche without pâte fermentée except for the following:

  1. One hour after the dough was mixed (ie, at the end of the second set of S&F's, section off a piece of dough weighing 300 g ( reserve it as future pâte fermentée);
  2. Total fermentation time is shorter by 1/2 hour because fermentation happens faster with this dough.  (From the very first set of S&F's, you can already see some strength in the dough because of the acidity from the pâte fermentée.  To me, this is quite something, considering the way I mix my dough is that there is no kneading whatsoever, merely stirring to hydrate the flours.) 
  3. As this is a slightly bigger dough (1,920 grams as opposed to 1,770 grams), bake it for one hour. 

 

        

        Gérard Rubaud Miche (with pâte fermentée)

                                                                                                             

 

I learned something in this bake:  that sourdough pâte fermentée will give you extra dough strength because of the acidity in the old dough (provided it is not over-fermented to start with).  I am amazed at the volume that I get in this miche.  (Let's recap: this dough went through 2 1/2 hours of fermentation at room temperature of 30 degree C, then went into the refrigerator for 9 hour retardation, then baked at 230 C for 1 hour. That's all.) 

The taste of this miche is a lot sourer than the previous miche.  

 

       

 

                                                   

 

This has been a very fulfilling exercise for me.   Thank you, MC, for the wonderful experience.

 

Shiao-Ping

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Another one for Norm: onion rolls?

Norm, I haven't had a decent onion roll since I left NY about 25 years ago, and I'd kill for one -- you know the kind I'm talking about -- the big ones, 4" in diameter, browned with a crisp crust and flecked with chopped onions and (maybe) poppy seeds ... the kind that needs nothing more than a schmear of cold, unsalted butter ....

Can you help?

Stan

potato rosemary rolls

Thanksgiving in the States is coming up soon. These rolls would make a wonderful accompaniment to the banquet table, though they are simple enough that they can go along with any night's dinner. They make amazing hamburger buns too.

Potato Rosemary Rolls Makes 18 small rolls or 12 hamburger sized buns 1 potato, cooked and mashed 1 lb (3 1/2 cups) bread or all-purpose unbleached flour 3/4 - 1 cup water 2 teaspoons instant yeast 2 teaspoons salt 1 tablespoon butter 1 tablespoon dried rosemary or 2 tablespoons fresh rosemary 1 teaspoon ground black pepper 1 teaspoon ground sage leaves

Cook the potato until soft, either by boiling or baking in the oven or microwave. For this batch I chopped up and boiled the potato. I then reserved a cup of the potato water to add to the loaf, figuring it had additional nutrients and starches that would help my loaf.

Mash the potato. Removing the skin prior to mashing is optional: if you are using tough skinned potatoes like russets I would suggest removing them, but with soft skinned potatoes such as yukon gold or red potatoes I typically leave them on. The chopped up skin add nice color and texture to your rolls.

Combine the flour, mashed potato, yeast, salt, pepper and herbs in a large bowl. Add 3/4 cups water and knead or mix for 5 to 10 minutes, adding more water or flour until a consistency you are comfortable working with is reached. I added close to a full cup of water and ended up with an extremely sticky dough that was difficult to work with. I was only able to shape the rolls by repeatedly dipping my fingers in flour. The end result was wonderful though.

(I encourage amateur bakers to push the limit of what they think they can handle, moisture-wise. More often than not you'll be pleasantly surprised with the results, though you can go too far and end up baking a pancake, which I've done more than once.)

potato rosemary rolls

Place the dough in a greased bowl, cover the bowl with plastic wrap or a moist towel and let the dough rise until it has doubled in size, typically 60 to 90 minutes.

Remove the dough from the bowl, gently degas it, and shape it. For rolls or buns you can weigh them if you like or just eyeball them. I cut racquetball sized chunks of dough (larger than golf balls, smaller than tennis balls) then rolled them into balls in my well-floured hands. I placed them on a baking sheet covered with parchment, placed the entire sheet in a plastic trash bag, and set it aside to rise for approximately an hour again.

While the dough rose, I preheated the oven to 375 degrees.

If you have a spritzer, spray the top of the rolls with water right before placing them in the oven. Place them in the center rack and bake them for 10 minutes. Rotate the pan 180 degrees and bake them for another 10 to 20 minutes, depending on size. My large hamburger bun sized rolls took close to half an hour to bake. You'll know they are done when the bottom of the rolls is solid and slightly crispy. If you have a probe thermometer, check the temperature inside one of the rolls. When the internal temperature is approaching 200 degrees F, they are ready to pull out of the oven.

potato rosemary rolls

potato rosemary rolls

Allow the rolls to cool before serving. They keep very well too, so you could bake them a day or two ahead of time and still serve them for Thanksgiving.

Related Recipe: Kaiser Rolls.

Potato Rosemary Rolls

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Bread in the spirit of FWSY

12 September, 2014

 One of the attractions of Ken Forkish's Flour Water Salt Yeast bread baking book is that a concerted study of it will teach you how the important variables of ingredients, time and temperature can be manipulated to produce different flavor profiles and how, keeping most methods constant, you can develop procedures that accommodate to your own schedule and still produce a variety of outstanding breads.

Well, that's the theory. In fact, most of us don't have complete control of ambient temperature, one of the most important variables controlling fermentation. That means results can be very different from those Forkish describes. Nonetheless, if you do understand the basic principles, you can juggle the variables you can control to obtain really outstanding breads using Forkish's formulas and methods.

 In my Central California kitchen, about 9 months of the year, the temperature is significantly higher than it was in Forkish's Portland, Oregon kitchen when he developed his formulas. As a result, fermentation proceeds very much faster than described in the book. An “overnight” bread from FWYS will get way over-fermented if left overnight at room temperature. I have successfully followed Forkish's times only in Winter, when my kitchen temperature runs 65-68ºF.

 On top of that, my personal time demands do not always fit with the schedules Forkish describes in any of his recipes. So, sometimes … well, almost always … , I end up using Forkish's basic approach, but use my ability to control time and temperature to make it work for me. For example …

Today, I baked a couple loaves based on Forkish's “Overnight Country Blonde” formula. It calls for a final levain feeding at 9 am, mixing the final dough at 5 pm, letting it ferment at room temperature overnight, shaping the loaves at 8 am the next morning and baking at noon. I kept the formula (ratio of ingredients) and most procedures the same but altered the time and temperature a lot. Here's what I actually did:

 Three days before baking, at 10 pm, I activated my refrigerated stock starter by mixing 30 g of starter (50% hydration) with 75 g water and 75 g flour (a mix of 70% AP, 20% WW and 10% medium rye).

 Twelve hours later, I fed the levain as follows:

 

Levain ingredients

Wt (g)

Baker's %

Mature liquid levain

50

50

AP flour

200

80

WW flour

50

20

Water

200

80

Total

500

230

 

  1. In a medium-size bowl, dissolve the levain the the water. Add the flours, and mix thoroughly.

  2. Transfer to a clean bowl. Cover tightly.

  3. Ferment until moderately ripe. (In my 78ºF kitchen, this took about 6 hours. The levain was tripled in volume. It had a domed surface. In the transparent, plastic container, bubbles could be seen throughout the levain.

  4. Cold retard at 40ºF until the next morning.

 

At about 8 am the next morning, I took the levain out of the refrigerator and let it warm up on the counter. At about 10 am, I proceeded to mix the final dough as follows:

 

Final Dough ingredients

Wt (g)

Levain

216

AP flour

804

WW flour

26

Medium Rye flour

50

Water (90ºF)

684

Salt

22

Total

1802

 

  1. In a 6 L Cambro(R) container, mix the water and flours to a shaggy mass. Cover and let stand for 20-60 minutes. (Autolyse).

  2. Sprinkle the surface of the dough with the salt and add the levain in chunks.

  3. Mix by folding the dough over itself while rotating the container, then complete the mixing by the “pinch and fold” method described by Forkish. Wet hands in water as necessary to reduce dough sticking to hands. (I wet my hands very liberally and frequently. My dough weighed 1820g at the time I divided it, implying that using wet hands added 18g of water to the dough. This increased the final dough hydration from 78% to 79.8%.)

  4. Bulk ferment until the dough has increased in volume to 2.5 times with stretch and folds 4 times at 30 minute intervals at the beginning of fermentation. (This took 2 1/2 to 3 hours, in my kitchen.)

  5. Divide the dough into two equal parts. Pre-shape as rounds. Cover with a damp towel and let rest 15-20 minutes.

  6. Shape as boules and place in linen-lined bannetons that have been well dusted with a mix of AP and Rice flours.

  7. Place bannetons in plastic bags and refrigerate overnight. (This was actually from about 4 pm to about 2:30 pm the next day.)

  8. Bake at 475ºF in Dutch ovens, as Forkish describes.

  9. Transfer to a cooling rack and let cool before slicing.

 

In summary, I altered Forkish's procedures by drastically shortening the very long, room temperature bulk fermentation and adding a long, cold retardation of the formed loaves. And the levain was also cold retarded overnight.

 Forkish describes the flavor of this bread as having a mild tang that mellows over the first couple days after baking. My bread had a sweet, wheaty flavor and a moderate tang, tasted when just cooled to room temperature. The crust was crunchy, and the crumb was quite chewy. Pretty good stuff.

 

Happy baking!

 

David

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Dan Lepard's Pumpkin Whey Bread

I'm baking a lot, but, since it's summer, mostly for sale.

And then there are other time consuming projects like painting windows (with some tireless mosquitoes for company), massaging my husband's cramped neck (after installing aforementioned windows), and hunting for those friggin' Japanese beetles that turn my raspberry leaves into lace.

  Beetle "Lace"

My list of "Equal Opportunity Breads" still waits for more items to be checked off - I did some more, but got a bit listless after a few stubborn loaves just didn't turn out the way I liked.

But in a recent weekend edition of "The Guardian", master baker Dan Lepard published an interesting bread made with whey instead of water. From my last batch of Greek yogurt I had a lot of whey left over, sitting in my fridge, while I wondered what to do with it.

Pumpkin Whey Bread was just what I was looking for!

Pumpkin, Pumpkin Seeds and Whey - main ingredients for this autumn loaf

Dan Lepard cooked fresh butternut squash for his puree, but here in the US good quality canned pumpkin is readily available, and preparing and draining pumpkin puree a time consuming process.

I always have a supply of pumpkin puree in my pantry (to satisfy a sudden craving for pumpkin pancakes or pumpkin chocolate chip muffins). But for those who don't (or prefer making their own), here is a link to the procedure.

The dough looks a bit dry still, but will be soft and a bit sticky after brief kneading

What I like about Lepard's loaves is his minimalistic approach to kneading. Much as I admire Richard Bertinet's breads: compare his 30-minute-complete-upper-arm-workout to Lepards 10 seconds of gentle handling.

Normally I would use a stand mixer, but this soft dough can be easily (and less fussy) made by hand.

Threatening dough overflow - next time I will reduce the yeast!

Preferring longer fermentation I mixed the dough the day before, and let it slowly rise overnight in the fridge. It rose so mightily that it almost popped the lid. A sure sign that the instant yeast can be safely reduced to 5 grams down from the 7 grams the recipe requires. 

And, (for the good conscience) I substituted some of the white flour with whole wheat.

Ready for the oven

My Pumpkin Whey Bread turned out really nice. It had a delicate crisp crust, and a rich, dark golden crumb. Very flavorful, it is a true multi-purpose bread, and can be enjoyed with ham as well as jam. It is also good for toasting.

Stored in a brown paper bag, it kept fresh for several days.

Dan Lepard's formula you find HERE.

 

MY CHANGES:

  • Use good quality canned pumpkin (like Libby's or One-Pie) instead of fresh
  • Reduce the amount of instant yeast from 7 g to 5 g
  • Substitute 100 g of the bread flour with white whole wheat flour
  • Cold bulk fermentation in the fridge overnight (remove 2 hours before shaping)

Striking gold with this wonderful tasty loaf!

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Making Red Rye Malt

I took 60 g of rye berries and soaked them for 5 hours in water.  Then, taking a metal sheet tray, I moistened a paper towel and placed it on the tray and spread the berries over the paper towel.  I then took two paper towels, moistened them, placed them over the berries, covered the sheet pan with plastic wrap and covered the whole shebang with a kitchen towel.. Every day I would move the berries around and spray the top of the paper towels a little water to keep them moist - not wet.  After 96 hours from start to finish the berries were ready to dry and looked like this.

The tray looked like this.

I then dried the berries in my table top Cuisinart convection oven.  The berries were stirred and the pan was rotated 18o degrees every 15 minutes.  I used a drying schedule of 30 minutes each at 175 F (convection), 225 F, 275 F and then 20 minutes at 325 F and they were done. Here are pictures at the end of each time and temperature.

175 F

225 F

275 F

325 F

After grinding the original 60 g of berries, it made 32 G of Red Rye Malt Powder.  The powder looked like this.

 

JMonkey's picture
JMonkey

Finally -- a 100% whole grain hearth bread I'm proud of

As many of you know, I've been questing for a tasty, open crumb, 100% whole grain hearth bread for a long, long time now.

This weekend, I finally achieved my goal.



Nice open crumb, creamy texture, tangy and flavorful crumb, appealing slashes, crunchy crust.

Here's how I made it, and, to be truthful, it was mostly on a whim. The day before, I'd made some whole wheat sourdough sandwich bread, and had about 80 grams of starter left over. I didn't have time, really, to feed it, so I popped it in the fridge figuring I'd do something with it later.

The next evening, as I was thinking about what to cook for a visit from my folks (they'd come all the way from Atlanta, so I wanted something nice), I thought, "Why not try something akin to CrumbBum's miche?"

So here's what I did:

  • 40 grams of whole wheat starter at 60% hydration (Use 50 grams if at 100% hydration)
  • 375 grams water
  • 10 grams salt
  • 300 grams whole wheat flour
  • 150 grams whole spelt flour
  • 50 grams whole rye flour
So basically, its roughly 5 percent of flour in the starter, with a 60-30-10 wheat / spelt / rye flour combination at 75% hydration.

I mixed the starter into the water, added the salt until it was dissolved, and then stirred in the flour. I then did a stretch and fold at one hour, and then two more at half hour intervals. After the last stretch and fold, I shaped it into a ball, and let it sit overnight.

It's pretty chilly in our house at night, getting down to 63 degrees F, so your mileage may very, but the dough was ready to shape after about 12 hours. I preshaped it into a ball, shaped the dough into a batard after a 15 minute rest, wrapped it in baker's linen and then let it rise at 64 degrees for about 3.5 hours. After that, a few slashes and into a hot oven at 450 for 35 minutes.

I think the final piece that came into place for me was shaping gently, but firmly. And I suspect that the long fermentation helped with both flavor and texture. Anyway, I hope I can repeat this success.
Floydm's picture
Floydm

English Muffins

Today I tried making English Muffins for the first time. They turned out pretty good:

I think I made the dough a little too dry, so I didn't get the big holes inside that you want, but they still tasted good.

I used the recipe from Beth Hensberger's Bread Bible. I may try another next time, but no complaints about this recipe.

Traditional English Muffins

1/4 cup warm water (105 - 115 degrees)
1 tablespoon (1 package) active dry yeast (or a little less than a tablespoon of instant yeast)
Pinch of sugar
4 to 4 1/2 cups unbleached all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons salt
1 egg
1 1/4 cup warm milk
2 tablespoons melted butter
Cornmeal (for dusting)

If using active dry yeast, combine the water, yeast, and a pinch of sugar in a small bowl and let stand until foamy, about 10 minutes. If using instant yeast, as I did, you can just mix the yeast in with the flour and omit this first step and the sugar.

Combine 2 cups of the flour and the salt in a large bowl. Make a well in the center and pour in egg, milk, butter, and yeast mixture. Mix until creamy, about 2 minutes. Add the remaining flour 1/2 cup at a time, stirring in each time, until you have a soft dough that just clears the sides of the bowl.

Turn the dough out onto a floured work surface and knead for 3 to 5 minutes. Return the dough to a clean, greased bowl, cover with plastic wrap, and allow the dough to rise until doubled in size, about 90 minutes.

Sprinkle a work surface with cornmeal. Pour the dough out of the bowl and onto the surface. Sprinkle the top of the dough with cornmeal and then roll the dough into a rectangle about 1/2 inch thick. Use a large round cookie cutter or an upside down drinking glass to cut the muffins out of the dough.

Heat a large skillet over medium heat. Place the muffins onto the skillet and let the bake for 5 to 10 minutes until quite dark before flipping.

An optional step, if you are concerned about baking them all the way through (which I was), is to have your oven heated to 350. After baking the muffins on the griddle for 5 minutes on each side, place them on a cookie sheet and place them into the oven for an additional 5 to 10 minutes. This assures that they are baked through.

Enjoy!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Sourdough Italian Bread: Another SJSD Variant

Sourdough Italian Bread: A SJSD Variant 

David M. Snyder

October, 2017

 

 This is one of my favorite breads. It uses the San Joaquin Sourdough method but a different flour mix and enrichment with a bit of sugar and olive oil. The dough is lovely to work with, and the flavor is scrumptious - both very tangy and rich. I have made a variety of breads with differing proportions of fine durum flour - from 10% to 100%. So far, I like the breads with 20-40% durum best, and this one best of all.

 One warning: I have fed this bread to family members and to attendees at an Italian community potluck. Every time, I have observed many individuals coming back repeatedly for "just one more slice." It does not seem truly addictive. I have not observed any abstinence syndrome ("withdrawal"), but I would exercise caution when offering it to others - reserve a loaf for yourself. 

 

Total Dough

 

 

Ingredient

Amount (gms)

Bakers' %

AP flour

334

60.7

Fine Durum flour

200

36.4

WW flour

11

2

Whole Rye flour

5

1

Water

415

75

Salt

10

1.8

Sugar

14

2.5

EVOO

14

2.5

Total

1003

181.9

  

Liquid Levain

 

 

Ingredient

Amount (gms)

Bakers' %

Liquid starter

40

40

Water

100

100

AP flour

70

70

WW flour

20

20

Whole Rye flour

10

10

Total

240

240

  1. Disperse the liquid starter in the water.

  2. Add the flours and mix thoroughly.

  3. Ferment at room temperature until expanded and bubbly (8-12 hours). If necessary, refrigerate overnight and let warm up for an hour before using.

Note: You will only use 100 g of the levain for this recipe. I usually make enough for more than one use. You can, of course, scale down the levain ingredients if you only want enough for this recipe.

 

Final Dough

 

Ingredient

Amount (gms)

AP flour

300

Fine Durum flour

200

Water

365

Salt

10

Sugar

14

Active liquid levain

100

EVOO

14

Total

1003

Procedures

  1. In a large bowl, disperse the levain in the water.

  2. Add the flours and sugar to the liquid and mix to a shaggy mass.

  3. Cover the bowl and let it rest for 20-60 minutes.

  4. Add the salt and olive oil and mix thoroughly. (Note: I squish the dough with my hands until it comes back together, then do stretch and folds in the bowl until it forms a smooth ball and the oil appears completely incorporated.)

  5. Transfer the dough to a 2 quart lightly oiled bowl, and cover the bowl tightly.

  6. After 30 minutes, do stretch and folds in the bowl.

  7. After another 50 minutes, do a stretch and fold on a lightly floured board. Repeat after another 50 minutes.

  8. Continue bulk fermentation for another 30-90 minutes, until the dough is puffy. If fermented in a glass bowl, you should see lots of little bubbles throughout the dough. Volume of the dough may have increased by 50% or so.

  9. Refrigerate for 12-36 hours.

  10. Divide the dough into 2 to 4 equal pieces and pre-shape as rounds or logs. Cover with a clean towel, baker's linen or plasti-crap and let rest for one hour.

  11. Shape as Bâtards, Demi-Baguettes or Ficelles.

  12. Roll the loaves on damp paper towels, then in a tray of sesame seeds. Alternatively, you can brush the loaves with water and sprinkle with sesame seeds.

  13. Proof for about 45 minutes seam-side up on parchment paper or seam-side down on linen, pleated to separate the loaves and supported at both long sides by rolled-up dish towels. Cover with a damp towel, baker's linen or plasti-crap.

  14. One hour before baking, pre-heat the oven to 480ºF with a baking stone and steaming apparatus in place.

  15. When ready to bake, uncover the loaves. Pull the parchment (or linen) from both long sides to flatten out the pleats and separate the loaves.

  16. Transfer the loaves, on the parchment, to a peel, or, if proofed on linen, transfer using a transfer peel. Seam side should now be down. Score them as baguettes or bâtards, according to their shape. Transfer them to the baking stone. 

  17. Steam the oven, and turn the temperature down to 460ºF.

  18. After 12 minutes, remove the steaming apparatus. (Note: If you have a convection oven, switch to convection bake and turn the oven down to 435ºF for the remainder of the bake.) Continue baking for another 8-15 minutes or until the loaves are nicely browned and the internal temperature is at least 205ºF.

  19. Transfer the loaves to a cooling rack. Cool completely before eating.

 

Enjoy!

David

 

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