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 Submitted by dmsnyder on February 22, 2009 - 11:27pm Baguette crumb - 65% hydration doughSome time ago, Pat (proth5) posted her formula for baguettes. This was in the context of our "great baguette quest" of some months back. We were playing with higher hydration doughs and cold fermentation à la Gosselin and Bouabsa. Pat's formula is levain-based and employs a 65% hydration dough. She has insisted repeatedly that, while higher hydration is one route to a more open, holey crumb, fermentation and technique in shaping the baguettes are at least as important and that good technique can achieve the desired open crumb even with a dryer dough. Okay. It was past time I tested my own technique against Pat's claim. Pat's formula is as follows:
I followed this except I baked at 480F. I used Whole Foods 365 Organic AP flour. The result was an excellent, classic baguette with a crunchy crust and cool, creamy crumb. It was slightly sweet with imperceptible sourness when eaten just ... well, almost ... cooled. Here's the crumb:
I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Thanks, Pat! David
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One word: Wow. I'm a
One word: Wow.
I'm a believer, David :)
I've also thought that the most important key to an irregular, holey crumb is gentle handling and mixing the dough carefully so it remains extensible. The autolyse will definitely aid in achieving this as well. I haven't seen it demonstrated so clearly before, so thanks a lot for posting, David!
Wetter isn't always better.
Great baguettes!!
Great looking baguettes! One of the key factors in developing great crumb structures is to make sure the handling of the dough is gentle, and that includes during the shaping process. Another key factor that I recently heard is achieving proper fermentation.
Very Nice David
That crumb looks perfect David.
Eric
Nice...
I was crunching through a tartine this morning and saw your picture.
Yep. Very similar to what I eat every week...
Nice job!
One thing that I observe is that folks talk a lot about being careful not to deflate the dough during shaping. I will say that I regularly flatten any fermentation bubbles that seem to be interfering with good shaping. They will come back. There is a balance to be achieved in shaping of gentle handling, but a firm enough touch to get the thing in shape. "Iron hand in velevt glove" is the perfect expression. Thank you to "my teacher."
Now I have to produce that look with home milled flour. Don't wait up nights...
Pat
Great looking
David, that's a great looking crumb achieved with lower hydration/technique dough...I can just taste it...lovely bread!
Sylvia
Beautiful !
I wrote out that recipe last week when Pat was kind enough to send it to me. I am so looking forward to trying it. You have done it justice for sure. Caroline
Open crumb with 65% hydration.
Thanks, all, for your comments.
I just want to point out one other important variable: the flour.
I generally use higher protein flours for my SD breads. In this instance, Pat's formula called for AP flour, so that's what I used. AP flour absorbs less water than bread - or high gluten flour, so the dough texture was like a 70-75% hydration dough made with bread flour.
David
Ditto: Wow
David - I have tried and tried at my desert southwest altitude of 5500' with rather difficult starter "paste", rarely able to sustain the bubbles as I form my loaves. They come out crusty, but never with that tall structure you have achieved. I will try your formula. Curious, are you near sea level?
Jim
Thanks, Jim!
440' above sea level, here.
David
Altitude
The formula was developed (by me) at 5280' in a dry climate. The starter used is at 100% hydration.
You will note that only 12% of the flour is prefermented - this was the key (for me) to a reliably open crumb.
Hope this helps.
Pat
Thank you David
Beautiful job! I can't wait to try...
What a Great Looking Crumb
David,
As you are familiar with my current quest, this looks like a great formula to try. With the lower hydration, perhaps my scoring will improve.
Thanks to you as well Pat.
Darren
David or Proth5 a question
I am in the autolyse phase after mixing and I want to clarify a couple things if you don't mind.
As I read it, after the first 30 minute autolyse, there is a period over 2 hours where the dough gets folded in the bowl, as described, 4 times. Is that correct? Since we are changing the fermenting schedule I normally use I want to be sure of the times.
Second. Is the fold after the 1.5 hrs of bulk ferment another 30 strokes or a more gentle letter fold on the counter?
Lastly. After dividing and pre shaping, you are shaping the baguette fully at that time, unlike the Bouabsa technique which is more like shaping ciabatta. Yes? The proofing is done in a couch?
I'm anxious to finish this recipe and method. I do prefer to work with doughs that I can handle and shape without thinking about it sticking to everything. David's image is a remarkable looking bread. I didn't have any real AP today so I used my usual Gold Medal "Better for Bread" which I think is a little less strong than KA bread flour.
Eric
My answers
Hi, Eric.
Here are my answers:
You are correct regarding the folding in the bowl - 4 sets of 30 strokes at 30 min. intervals.
The final "fold" I did was a 4-way, "envelope" stretch and fold on the bench.
I pre-shaped and shaped using the usual technique for baguettes. This is a drier dough than Bouabsa's and it ended up more elastic/less extensible than what I get with the overnight fermentation. It was a very nice dough to work with, actually. I did proof en couche.
Looking forward to seeing your results.
David
As you say, AP would be better!
I am observing that my dough is quite a bit dryer than the Bouabsa formula, as it should be. I think I'll stop by Whole Foods today and pick up a bag of the 365. I thought about adding a little water but yours were so nice I should try to get some good AP.
Eric
Some refinements
I've made some refinements on this technique since I did the post of the formula.
About the "folds in the bowl" - i have been doing 4 at 30 minute intervals, but I fold only as many "strokes" as it takes until I see the dough begin to tear. Depending on how feisty I am feeling this may be a few as 15 folds. I am very careful that they are folds and not just pushing the dough around the bowl.
At 1.5 hours I do a "stretch and fold." This is - oh the horror - different than the technique Mr. Hamelman describes. I don't know why I came up with that variant, I am usually so obedient. :>)
Use AP flour. This is the flour I used in developing the formula.
I do the final ferment on a couche - seams up.
I shape pretty much per the "Bread, etc" book. I find that the dough rolls out pretty easily, but I have been baking these things every week for a couple of years now (some day I'll get it right...). I use an absolute minimum of flour on the bench when shaping, dust off whatever does cling to the dough at each step and make sure there is absolutely no flour on the bench when I roll out the baguette.
Hope this helps.
Pat
Couche question
Pat,
Is there a technical rationale for doing the proofing on a couche other than handling convenience? Just curious... Is the stretch and fold that you do the same as the Bertinet way?
Having the crumb that David got would entice me out of my self-imposed abstinence (from frustration, not religious reasons) from making baguettes.
Answer?
The rationale behind the couche (other than it seems to me like a nice, efficient way to handle the dough) is that the linen of the couche draws a small amount of moisture away from the surface of the dough. This creates a thin skin which theoretically eases scoring and helps to create the conditions that create the "grigne" that we so fervently desire.
As for the "Bertinet way," I am ashamed to say that I don't know what that is. So, I don't know. I just put the dough on the bench - degass it and the pull the edges and fold them in thirds, do a 90 degree rotation and do it again. The part of the dough that is on the bench becomes the "good side" of the dough and will remain that way all the way through shaping.
"Every step must be perfect." - "My teacher"
Hope this helps.
Thanks Pat
Well, OK I get it about the AP flour. My bread was tasty enough and full of nice open holes but it was to strong, to dry, and to something else I can't quite figure out. I don't like what happened in the oven and I got a dry skin in the couche.
Today was one of those multi task stress me out days. Somehow I managed to make 2 round trips to downtown Milwaukee and slow roast/smoke a dozen Turkey Drums all the while trying to be attentive to the bread. It's a wonder I didn't burn the house down.
I had trouble with the dough temperature in our cool house. I'll be happy when it warms up to San Diego weather here in Wisconsin. I would guess I was 10 degrees cool for most of the ferment and I did compensate while I tried to warm the dough. Yes, it does matter, especially with sourdough.
I didn't get a huge spring but enough to show you the crumb wasn't bad. See how it is slightly carbonized on top. That's not normal for me and it wasn't intentional.??
I'll try this again when I get some good quality AP. Thanks Pat and David for all your suggestions.
Eric
Smoked Turkey Drums and Baguettes. Finger food for the masses!
Looks nice
Yeah, use the AP flour.
Don't know what to say about the bold baking on the top. Maybe your oven temperature needs moderating? Did you steam the oven?
I bake in Colorado and while we are enjoying a California winter this year, it is usually pretty cold. I use a heating pad in an insulated box to keep my fermenting dough warm...
I always caution that my formulas are particular to me. my altitude, my hands and my humidity.
Hope this helps.
Your baguettes
Hi, Eric.
Your crumb looks pretty open, but, from your description of the dough, I think you probably did need to add more water to make it more like what I got with AP flour.
I'm going to make another batch this weekend with two changes: I will use a liquid starter (I used a firm starter on the last batch.), and I'm going to try a cold retardation of the formed loaves to boost the sour flavor.
David
365 Organic
Dave what is your overall opinion on this flour from whole foods - do you use it in any of your other recipes - if so do you add gluten?
Thanks - anna
365 Organic AP
Hi, Anna.
So far, this is the first time I have used it for bread. No firm opinion yet. I have never added gluten to any recipe.
David
sigh - to each his own
Well, spurred on by this posting and the 2/27 baking outputs (wow!), I gave the proth5 baguette recipe a whirl.
THanks for sharing this recipe. It looked quite similar to another six-fold French bread recipe I've tried, but the outcome was MUCH more baguette-like and with a really lovely crust.
My starter had been languishing a bit long in the fridge, so I pulled it out and 'refreshed' it for this purpose. It wasn't as strong as it usually is, but still did the trick (in my cool kitchen).
The result was, IMO, an awesome tasting loaf...creamy flavour with just a hint of sour, particularly in the crust. The crumb could have been a bit more open, but I'm sure a healthier starter would sort this out. I couldn't wait to bake it again!
Imagine my dismay when, at breakfast, DH proclaimed that this baguette was "too sour" for him to taste the smoked salmon on it. And my biggest fan, aka #1 son, followed in his father's mold by also proclaiming it "too sour".
Ah, well....guess I'll have to make it alongside another type of loaf so *I* can enjoy the awesome flavour.
:-)
MommaT
Too sour?
Hi, MommaT.
If your starter was sluggish, I assume that your bulk fermentation took longer than usual. That probably accounts for the increased sourness.
My baguettes were not noticeably sour. I'd be interested in Pat's input on this.
David
Hello David, Regarding
Hello David,
Regarding sour-ness...the other consideration, per the recent posts, could be that the starter has been nursed on the counter for 2 rounds of refreshing prior to the baking. Usually I refresh the starter, leave it out an hour or two, just to let it get going, then put it back in the fridge. Perhaps it was the warmer temps.
Go figure!
MommaT